handmade.network » Forums » Career Advice » When to ask about non-negotiable terms?
Brian
22 posts
#12295 When to ask about non-negotiable terms?
4 weeks ago

Greetings!

When in the process of talking with a prospective employer, when should one bring up non-negotiable terms? While in the talking phase (before interviews)? During interviews? Or should we always wait until the negotiations?

I often get contacted about job opportunities but due to some needs that I require which I am usefully forthcoming about, those opportunities never go further than the initial talks.

My opinion is that if there are some things that you are not willing to negotiate on, why waste everyone's time (your time included), going through a whole process that would not have been possible to begin with.

I understand fully though that unless they fully know who you are and your skills, that the only time you will have any sort of leverage is during the negotiating phase (thus, had interviews and have been given an offer).

I realize that "non-negotiable" terms is very broad and differs greatly from person to person. The ones I am interested in are things like being able to:

* partially/completely work remotely
* part time (8-10 hours a day, but 3-4 days a week)
* Understand their policy on outside work

Of course I have others, like needs to be a good working environment; understanding their policy on how they handle things like overtime; no toleration for harassment; and that they are not the Skeksis, sucking our life essence while we still have it. However, I view all of those to be expected and if they don't have those, fuck them.


Thoughts?
Telash
Mikael Johansson
38 posts
1 project
#12296 When to ask about non-negotiable terms?
4 weeks ago

I live in Sweden, and am unemployed, so I do not know how much help this will be, but here, the only way to get the terms you list down there is when you have worked for a while in the company, or if they REALLY want you, like hand picked you.

At my one and only programming job I had worked for about two months, when I asked to get to work part time. They were really happy with my work, and were desperate for people, but they STILL fired me for asking for part time job.

Maybe employers are more sane where you live, but I wouldn't hold my breath..
Brian
22 posts
#12309 When to ask about non-negotiable terms?
3 weeks, 5 days ago

To be honest, not sure how to respond to that.

What was their reason for termination? Sounds like all sorts of bullshit if you ask me. Was it that you could not continue working full-time and thus the options were: part-time or let go?

And negotiating after you've been with the company would be kind of too late, I would think. Because you've already agreed to their terms, thus they have all the cards.
Telash
Mikael Johansson
38 posts
1 project
#12310 When to ask about non-negotiable terms?
3 weeks, 5 days ago

There is all sorts of bullshit in the corporate World. The fact that I asked for part time made them think I wasn't happy there, witch ofcource was kind of true, but I needed the job. In any case it made them feel like I wouldn't like it there so they thought it was better to let me go. If you want to Think its bullshit, its not much I can do about that.
But I really don't see why you decide to be rude to the only one that answered your thread?

And about the terms: I can only speak for Sweden, and it doesn't work like that here. When you don't have a job, its hard to get one, but when you do, its easy to get another one. So before you work there, they have all the cards, but once you started, you will have all the cards, because they have become dependent of you, and all other software companies wants to hire you.
Brian
22 posts
#12321 When to ask about non-negotiable terms?
3 weeks, 4 days ago

I am curious as to why you would think that remark (or insult) was directed at you, and not to the behaviour and actions of the company that fired you?

It was not directed at you.
Telash
Mikael Johansson
38 posts
1 project
#12324 When to ask about non-negotiable terms?
3 weeks, 4 days ago

Oh? Then I misunderstood. I am just used to people always believing the employer over the employee here.