Salut,
I find it inspiring that young devs and senior folk always correspond gleefully on our chatrooms--usually to hilarious argumentative results. Thus, I'd like to think this community sympathizes with the author's gripes, and that we are different in that regard.
"Abner, wtf?"
Oops, the post I wanted to share is here (thanks d7samurai). I couldn't find myself agreeing more, and I am slightly ashamed for my abuse of the "you are over 30" jokes when I streamed on Twitch.
-Abner
I find it inspiring that young devs and senior folk always correspond gleefully on our chatrooms--usually to hilarious argumentative results. Thus, I'd like to think this community sympathizes with the author's gripes, and that we are different in that regard.
"Abner, wtf?"
Oops, the post I wanted to share is here (thanks d7samurai). I couldn't find myself agreeing more, and I am slightly ashamed for my abuse of the "you are over 30" jokes when I streamed on Twitch.
-Abner
I'm 30 and started programming too late. I wish I had the kind of wisdom all these old programmers carry around with them.
...that by being older, my experience is worthless since all the stuff I’ve learned has become obsolete.
The skill of efficient problem solving doesn't age, of course. On the other hand, the knowledge acquired about some library du jour, say AngularJS (or Unity3D for that matter), is ephemeral. I think that there exists a core of fundamental skills, which is constant across the ever changing mushroom-like landscape of technologies.
dfrunza
I think that there exists a core of fundamental skills, which is constant across the ever changing mushroom-like landscape of technologies.
There are such a core of fundamental skills, because even though the landscape is ever change, each change is derivative of the one before, so you tend to pick up pattern matching skills that last a long time. Even a jump from ANSI C to Haskell has some crossover. I guess the way to 'catch up' is the same as it is with all skills. Practice.
Boy that's interesting because as a 27 year old "junior" dev, I would love nothing more than to be paired up with an old guy who has been coding for a long time... I love the history, stories, and insight that these people provide... Assuming this person was not a negative-nancy of course.
The whole "next best thing, must get the young smart guys" stuff is a complete farce IMO. History repeats itself and many times older people truly are wiser. It's also a paradox because how can a group of young people decide whether an older person belongs without thus being an older, perhaps wiser, person?
But there's also a lot more to the story. An organization who may seem biased due to skill levels is actually often biased due to internal politics and/or SAVING MONEY... I've seen older folks get let go for "performance issues" when the reality is, the organization wanted to replace them with cheaper labor because they couldn't justify paying someone with 20+ years of experience less.
Older folks are often set in their ways which yes, that can be a detriment, know-it-all behavior is also never a good thing, but at the end of the day, there are guys (and gals) out there who are far wiser than I am, especially being this young, and when they don't have a tragic flaw, they can blow us youngins out of the water IMO. They also tend to be more patient, well-rounded people. The fact that older folks ever feel discriminated against is sad and if I ever run a decent-sized business, I will ensure that never happens at my shop.
The whole "next best thing, must get the young smart guys" stuff is a complete farce IMO. History repeats itself and many times older people truly are wiser. It's also a paradox because how can a group of young people decide whether an older person belongs without thus being an older, perhaps wiser, person?
But there's also a lot more to the story. An organization who may seem biased due to skill levels is actually often biased due to internal politics and/or SAVING MONEY... I've seen older folks get let go for "performance issues" when the reality is, the organization wanted to replace them with cheaper labor because they couldn't justify paying someone with 20+ years of experience less.
Older folks are often set in their ways which yes, that can be a detriment, know-it-all behavior is also never a good thing, but at the end of the day, there are guys (and gals) out there who are far wiser than I am, especially being this young, and when they don't have a tragic flaw, they can blow us youngins out of the water IMO. They also tend to be more patient, well-rounded people. The fact that older folks ever feel discriminated against is sad and if I ever run a decent-sized business, I will ensure that never happens at my shop.
I'm a fairly still young (30s) beginner programmer looking to make an early-mid-life change. I find it incredibly short sighted if older programmers are being pushed out for a notion that their skills are out of date. I would love the opportunity to network and learn from experienced programmers.
As someone who is self-learning at home, I have had a difficult time trying to find the right resources and separate the wheat from the chaff. Knowing what to learn and what is a waste of time is something that can only be gained from experience and is a valuable asset of an older programmer.
This is why when I found out about Handmade, I was ecstatic with the idea of following along with experienced developers. Although I am still working on building up my base knowledge first, before going through the videos (completed the EDX/Harvard CS50 course, worked through 2/3rd of KnR C, and have a decent exposure to Python).
What I imagine is also a major factor in this trend is pay. I work in a related media industry and I have seen a push towards cutting costs by cutting the staff who have been there the longest and hiring young replacements at a fraction of the cost. Management in my industry puts talent as the top pecking order, followed by themselves (more management) with techs at the bottom of the chain. We are seen as grunts for the front-line; whereas we are actually the ones pushing the work through, solving problems and making things happen.
In the end, bad management is the root at most of these problems. If you fail to hire and retain qualified and experienced developers, then I don't see such a company lasting long.
-Nate
As someone who is self-learning at home, I have had a difficult time trying to find the right resources and separate the wheat from the chaff. Knowing what to learn and what is a waste of time is something that can only be gained from experience and is a valuable asset of an older programmer.
This is why when I found out about Handmade, I was ecstatic with the idea of following along with experienced developers. Although I am still working on building up my base knowledge first, before going through the videos (completed the EDX/Harvard CS50 course, worked through 2/3rd of KnR C, and have a decent exposure to Python).
What I imagine is also a major factor in this trend is pay. I work in a related media industry and I have seen a push towards cutting costs by cutting the staff who have been there the longest and hiring young replacements at a fraction of the cost. Management in my industry puts talent as the top pecking order, followed by themselves (more management) with techs at the bottom of the chain. We are seen as grunts for the front-line; whereas we are actually the ones pushing the work through, solving problems and making things happen.
In the end, bad management is the root at most of these problems. If you fail to hire and retain qualified and experienced developers, then I don't see such a company lasting long.
-Nate
Just to add my thoughts. Hi I am 19 years old and I completed EDEX CS50(the only IT qualification I have other than 3 simple passes in G.C.E. AL maths stream which is not relevant at all).But i didn't learn c programming from CS50 instead From the intro to c series done by handmadehero's host before handmadehero started. It was the first time that i learnt about the debugger and underlying Assembly programming and I loved it. But I am still learning and I am still small compared to casey's knowledge and i would like to learn more. But i don't have enough time and money(to pay bills) to do so. This is a common problem. And Mr.Martins was really helpful at the forums in helping me in trying new technologies which i wouldn't have been able to do if it weren't for his guidance.
I am still seeking a job but the problem is that companies ask for more qualifications for jobs like degrees and experience.. stuff.
So I tend to fallback but i have still haven't stopped coding and never will. But I have a lot to learn than casey and other people in handmade network.And some day I will make useful software.
I am still seeking a job but the problem is that companies ask for more qualifications for jobs like degrees and experience.. stuff.
So I tend to fallback but i have still haven't stopped coding and never will. But I have a lot to learn than casey and other people in handmade network.And some day I will make useful software.
Edited by Shazan Shums
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